Thanks, Anna! I think LFB is a lot of fun ?
A question though: Why would Gracie ever choose to go close to that barn if she can walk anywhere else instead of to the barn she is afraid of? This human doubts that she would ever choose to go up to the barn and take a peak and one day walk in. I am being honest so you can address my doubt.
Grace will have to have exposure to this barn for vet visits and winter storms when she won’t be kept out in the paddock as she usually does 24/7. She will be led into the barn on halter and lead line no if’s, ands or buts by barn hands.
On this day, as we approached the barn and I felt she was going to move away from it I used the soft hand by her cheek to ask her if she could just hang in there a bit longer. If she really wanted to she could have blown through my hand and I wouldn’t have tried to change her mind. I would just breathe and wait and see if she would step forward which she would and actually she would take quite a few steps. At no time did I pull on her to go forward. She was not attached at the halter just the neck rope which gives me no ability to pull even if I wanted to. When we got up to about 5 ft from barn door, I dropped way back and let her decide how close she wanted to go from there LFB. As you saw she decided to peak. I was very proud of her and she didn’t bolt away either.
I am trying to find a balance between complete autonomy to approach that barn and a little help to consider going closer. So back to my question : if I just stick to pure LFB do you really think she will mosey over there one day if the only time she is ever in there is when she is forced to do so for vet or winter weather ?
Thank you for your patience with this doubting human. I did hear you say, she has to figure this out herself and LFB has done amazing things (huge paradigm shift for sure). I just can’t wrap my brain around her ever choosing to investigate that barn when she has so many other parts of the property to investigate while she and I go out LFB.
Diane, I will speak for horses. Pressure creates anxiety, in people and in horses. The nervous system is the way it is. Period. If her handlers are cruel, you must move her. If not, then please give her a chance to do this. At least with you. Perhaps the barn help moves with confidence and it isn’t as bad as you think. I can’t tell without seeing her. But if it is you doubting, well, she can read your doubt and that sounds like anxiety to a horse. This training approach requires a suspension of disbelief. You say the leading from behind is working, let it keep working. I won’t call your work with her bad, but blocking a horse with anxiety is not something I wouldn’t do. Will she just wander over? Yes. Are you a master at this method of communication? Probably not. Do you have great timing? Who knows. I am dead certain of one thing. She is intelligent. Do you trust that?
Anna, I am not a master. Feel and timing – well-as I said, I am not a master. Never intended to give the impression I was. Just asking honest questions from my heart. The barn help is not cruel. Gracie is just very anxious in the barn- period. This is everyone’s assessment (her owner, barn help, other humans at the stable) not just mine. Sure I believe she is intelligent. I don’t know why a smart horse would choose to wonder over to a barn that she finds scary. I will try to suspend disbelief.
Sorry if I sounded harsh, I didn’t mean to. I apologize. It’s always a soup of so many things and do I remember now that you don’t own her?? So little you can do. I’ll write a blog this week about it, but don’t feel bad. None of this is within our control. Please, do not take offense. Brain science says that horses can’t learn if they are frightened. When they are in their sympathetic nervous system, they are leaning toward flight or maybe shutting down, but she has done the flight response in the past, so that’s my concern about pressure. If we can switch to a affirmative game where she gets a yes for being curious, it all changes. Curiosity actually creates mental strength, releases dopamine, builds dendrites. This week both Moa and Kim wrote on FB about horses doing things they didnt expect when given time and choice. That’s what I mean by a suspension of disbelief; none of us think it will work, but wht I can tell you from my years of training and giving clinics, is that horses do things when I ask that come at a total shock to all of us. Does it make human logic that she would go… no. But she isn’t human. She doesn’t think like we do. And she will answer this question differently for each person who asks her. The best we can do is try to be the human who listens, responds quickly and affirmatively, and keeps their energy positive and light. Again, I do know you are asking honest question, I know your heart is good. I wish I was there so I could show you what I mean. Again, I apologize if I sounded harsh.
Thank you, Anna:-)! So much to lick and chew on. Thank you for bringing up the brain science again. I need to be reminded over and over for it to take root. It helps it all make sense. I have to rededicate myself to pure LFB. Building dendrites can happen out and about everywhere on the property and this will in turn one day equip Gracie with the desire to go check out that barn. This is not easy for me to completely let go of. I want to persuade her In very gentle ways. I am having a hard time shaking the thinking that sometimes a little bit of persuasion so she is just dancing on the edge of her PSN would better help her in the long run as she will get to a place of being ok with the barn sooner and thereby not be pushed into the sympathetic nervous system to such a great degree when she needs to go in there for unavoidable reasons. I know you are trying to impart your years of experiential knowledge and what you have come to know to be true in your heart for the best interest of the horse. As you have said, It is a huge paradigm shift! I appreciate as always your time in responding. Also, I don’t expect you to be able to remember all the details of everyone’s situations. The open honest dialogue is so refreshing! Apology accepted. I was feeling misunderstood and sensitive. Silly bruised human ego ?. Thank you for your care and passion to help each horse and human partnership ?
Having a bruised human ego is the price of admission to the horse world, as far as I can tell… you’re in good company. We are all trying to find the line between too much and too little…
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Thanks, Anna! I think LFB is a lot of fun ?
A question though: Why would Gracie ever choose to go close to that barn if she can walk anywhere else instead of to the barn she is afraid of? This human doubts that she would ever choose to go up to the barn and take a peak and one day walk in. I am being honest so you can address my doubt.
Grace will have to have exposure to this barn for vet visits and winter storms when she won’t be kept out in the paddock as she usually does 24/7. She will be led into the barn on halter and lead line no if’s, ands or buts by barn hands.
On this day, as we approached the barn and I felt she was going to move away from it I used the soft hand by her cheek to ask her if she could just hang in there a bit longer. If she really wanted to she could have blown through my hand and I wouldn’t have tried to change her mind. I would just breathe and wait and see if she would step forward which she would and actually she would take quite a few steps. At no time did I pull on her to go forward. She was not attached at the halter just the neck rope which gives me no ability to pull even if I wanted to. When we got up to about 5 ft from barn door, I dropped way back and let her decide how close she wanted to go from there LFB. As you saw she decided to peak. I was very proud of her and she didn’t bolt away either.
I am trying to find a balance between complete autonomy to approach that barn and a little help to consider going closer. So back to my question : if I just stick to pure LFB do you really think she will mosey over there one day if the only time she is ever in there is when she is forced to do so for vet or winter weather ?
Thank you for your patience with this doubting human. I did hear you say, she has to figure this out herself and LFB has done amazing things (huge paradigm shift for sure). I just can’t wrap my brain around her ever choosing to investigate that barn when she has so many other parts of the property to investigate while she and I go out LFB.
Diane, I will speak for horses. Pressure creates anxiety, in people and in horses. The nervous system is the way it is. Period. If her handlers are cruel, you must move her. If not, then please give her a chance to do this. At least with you. Perhaps the barn help moves with confidence and it isn’t as bad as you think. I can’t tell without seeing her. But if it is you doubting, well, she can read your doubt and that sounds like anxiety to a horse. This training approach requires a suspension of disbelief. You say the leading from behind is working, let it keep working. I won’t call your work with her bad, but blocking a horse with anxiety is not something I wouldn’t do. Will she just wander over? Yes. Are you a master at this method of communication? Probably not. Do you have great timing? Who knows. I am dead certain of one thing. She is intelligent. Do you trust that?
Anna, I am not a master. Feel and timing – well-as I said, I am not a master. Never intended to give the impression I was. Just asking honest questions from my heart. The barn help is not cruel. Gracie is just very anxious in the barn- period. This is everyone’s assessment (her owner, barn help, other humans at the stable) not just mine. Sure I believe she is intelligent. I don’t know why a smart horse would choose to wonder over to a barn that she finds scary. I will try to suspend disbelief.
Sorry if I sounded harsh, I didn’t mean to. I apologize. It’s always a soup of so many things and do I remember now that you don’t own her?? So little you can do. I’ll write a blog this week about it, but don’t feel bad. None of this is within our control. Please, do not take offense. Brain science says that horses can’t learn if they are frightened. When they are in their sympathetic nervous system, they are leaning toward flight or maybe shutting down, but she has done the flight response in the past, so that’s my concern about pressure. If we can switch to a affirmative game where she gets a yes for being curious, it all changes. Curiosity actually creates mental strength, releases dopamine, builds dendrites. This week both Moa and Kim wrote on FB about horses doing things they didnt expect when given time and choice. That’s what I mean by a suspension of disbelief; none of us think it will work, but wht I can tell you from my years of training and giving clinics, is that horses do things when I ask that come at a total shock to all of us. Does it make human logic that she would go… no. But she isn’t human. She doesn’t think like we do. And she will answer this question differently for each person who asks her. The best we can do is try to be the human who listens, responds quickly and affirmatively, and keeps their energy positive and light. Again, I do know you are asking honest question, I know your heart is good. I wish I was there so I could show you what I mean. Again, I apologize if I sounded harsh.
Thank you, Anna:-)! So much to lick and chew on. Thank you for bringing up the brain science again. I need to be reminded over and over for it to take root. It helps it all make sense. I have to rededicate myself to pure LFB. Building dendrites can happen out and about everywhere on the property and this will in turn one day equip Gracie with the desire to go check out that barn. This is not easy for me to completely let go of. I want to persuade her In very gentle ways. I am having a hard time shaking the thinking that sometimes a little bit of persuasion so she is just dancing on the edge of her PSN would better help her in the long run as she will get to a place of being ok with the barn sooner and thereby not be pushed into the sympathetic nervous system to such a great degree when she needs to go in there for unavoidable reasons. I know you are trying to impart your years of experiential knowledge and what you have come to know to be true in your heart for the best interest of the horse. As you have said, It is a huge paradigm shift! I appreciate as always your time in responding. Also, I don’t expect you to be able to remember all the details of everyone’s situations. The open honest dialogue is so refreshing! Apology accepted. I was feeling misunderstood and sensitive. Silly bruised human ego ?. Thank you for your care and passion to help each horse and human partnership ?
Having a bruised human ego is the price of admission to the horse world, as far as I can tell… you’re in good company. We are all trying to find the line between too much and too little…